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November 28, 2006
Anatomy of Motive - The Young Case
Three years ago on this blog, we were speculating the possible motives a man like Scott Peterson would have for murdering his pregnant wife. By all accounts, Peterson was a pampered child with overindulgent parents. He led a privileged lifestyle with country club memberships, a low golf score, a nice house and truck, and all the trappings of California Yuppiedom. So, why would he throw it all away? Was he a victim of pathological self-sabotage, or did he really believe he would never get caught?
How does this apply to our discussion of Jason Young, if he is, in fact, responsible for his wife, Michelle’s murder? The following excerpt is from John Douglas’s book, The Anatomy of Motive. Douglas is a former chief of the FBI’s Investigative Support Unit and pioneered modern behavioral profiling of criminals.
What motivates many, if not most, of these guys is a desire for power and control that comes from a background where they felt powerless and out of control. Being able to manipulate, dominate and control a victim, to decide whether that victim lives or dies, or how that victim dies, makes them feel grandiose and superior, as they believe they are entitled to feel.
Did Jason feel emasculated by Michelle’s academic and professional success? Did she earn more money and have control of the purse strings? Did he feel minimized by the rapid inclusion of a baby early in the marriage and then a second baby who would usurp even more of Michelle’s love and attention? Did Jason grow up in a broken family where he had to vie for his mother’s attention? We know his birth father was displaced by a step-father, but what do we know of his childhood and adolescence? Little information is forthcoming from any sources close to the family. We are left to speculate.
It is difficult to know when the breaking point occurred for Jason, if he went to these lengths to destroy his wife and unborn baby. Their marriage was still in its early years; not nearly enough time to develop long-seated bitterness. Clearly, if Jason is responsible for Michelle’s murder, he has been simmering with oppressed rage for some time. If he committed the act in question, he must have become completely overwhelmed by his responsibilities as husband, father, and provider. He felt trapped, unmanageable, frustrated, and resentful of his lack of freedom. It is also possible that he was in some kind of secret debt that was about to be exposed. With the reality of even more financial demands looming ahead with the new baby, he may even have hatched this plan during Michelle’s second pregnancy that was abbreviated.
As bizarre as this may seem to newcomers to true-crime stories, according to John Douglas and other experts on criminal behavior, emancipation is a very common motive for murder.
Comments
Then again, a $1MM life insurance benefit, possibly $2MM if there was an accidental death rider, would have been icing on the cake.
Posted by: loretta | November 28, 2006 09:34 PM
They were married 3 years, dated before that--yet I've noticed his friends saying they didn't know Michelle well, etc. One was a friend of his for 10 years. Is that odd?
Posted by: CountryGirl | November 28, 2006 09:49 PM
I hate to keep playing devil's advocate BUTT I keep trying...
Jason not being a graduate? Last comment section on this site, a poster repeated JY rumor that he wasn't rocket scientist. To get into NCSU engineering school, he must have some brains.
I have read that MY had a masters in accounting. But most reports say that she graduated from State w/ BS in 1999.
On the face of the limited news, I don't doubt either one. I can see how JY may have taken longer (being a late bloomer) and MY accelerated her path for an advanced degree being a driven student.
NCSU is top notch in both fields so neither was sliding along. This area has HUGE potential for pharmaceutical sales. It is called the Research Triangle Park for a reason. I know several ppl that make six figures working 3/4 time in the field.
I can understand the cloud of suspicion over JY. It is justified. However, MY being the bread winner is not one of them. The female being the bread winner and not the bread maker here is hardly uncommon
All the mention of M.Peterson reminds me that Kathleen was not on his deed for Cedar St but she was the bread winner --- and the co-signer of the $380,000 mortgage MP took out on the dilapidated hut- prior to her death. things that do make you go hmmmmm
Posted by: lurkyloo | November 28, 2006 09:50 PM
If he was into pharmaceutical sales, don't those salesmen carry a lot of sample drugs around to doctors offices for the doctors to try out? Maybe he had a bad drug habit fed by such samples.
Posted by: Anonymous | November 28, 2006 10:10 PM
Bon jour to this.
I have been awaiting some answers and oh, my, muhatmah, there are so many answers to be had.
What is the solution? Oui will never know as we do not know the origin of the crime. Hoo Knows? Canninneebuddy tail moi?
I await an answer. I am passive, but not aggressive.
I am patient. hmmmmmmmmm, mmmmm,mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Okey dokey, I am waiting.
Posted by: moi | November 28, 2006 11:26 PM
MOI: you seem pass/ass abt any answer other than JY is the culprit.
I have no dog in this fight. I don't know JY/MY or any member of either family.
If JY is the obvious perp, there is something/someone obscuring the indictment. Or there would be one by now
Personally, I believe in IUPG. I know we are not in a court of law and we are not jurors. I respect your opinion that there is overwhelming COG.
Perhaps you could respect that others disagree. Should JY be guilty as his behavior implies, you can revel in your glee that the presumption of innocence was not warranted
One love and justice for all- including the victim and her beautiful child within.
Posted by: lurkyloo | November 29, 2006 12:18 AM
LL, forgive me if I'm off base, here, but are you taking Moi to task?
If so, I think it may be her unusual means of expression that is getting in the way of your understanding.
Our Moi is highly intelligent, extremely intuitive, fluent in several languages, and bears the soul of a poet.
She's playing with language, here.
She has utmost respect for the opinions of others, and their right to express them.
Posted by: vero | November 29, 2006 12:58 AM
LL, that comment was just rude. That's not going to fly here.
Posted by: Anonymous | November 29, 2006 01:11 AM
pharm. reps don't usually carry around meds that are normally locked away....IM of course....and many times, their jobs can be very mundane, like teaching nurses or other pharmacists how to use a new type of syringe.....teaching is a very big part of their job.....
Posted by: lee | November 29, 2006 01:52 AM
that should read "IMO"..getting late....
Posted by: Anonymous | November 29, 2006 01:53 AM
I missed Moi again!
I think LL should know that Moi is a longtime regular here.
Posted by: Nadine | November 29, 2006 02:17 AM
Adding: Moi is a longtime BELOVED regular here. Many of us have met her and can attest to her creative language use and totally open mind.
Posted by: Anonymous | November 29, 2006 03:14 AM
Oops, that was me above! Can't get used to the the personal info not registering.
Posted by: Astrologer | November 29, 2006 03:16 AM
Good morning!
Somehow, I don't believe MY gave Jason any bruises. This only makes sense if he was setting himself up as an abused husband.
This argument is never going to work because friends saw him leave on a business trip.
You don't sneak back from a business trip to murder your wife in self defence.
Posted by: Mgt | November 29, 2006 04:32 AM
Thought provoking entry, Loretta.
I believe there will be an arrest in this case very soon. We aren't at the one month mark, yet. Remember, Scott P wasn't arrested until after Laci's body was found (some 4-5 months) but investigators have said they would have eventually arrested him w/out a body.
Even though MY wasn't *missing*, since JYs DNA would be all over his house anyway, my guess is that his paper trail, along with possible outing of a GF, and his baby saying "Daddy did it" to Meridith will eventually become his noose.
It's normal for a delayed arrest of the perp when a case hinges on mainly circumstancial evidence. Investigators need time to put their ducks in a row to submit a case to the DA's office.
I think the only useful DNA will be if they found evidence in JY's car or if the actual murder weapon has been found.
Posted by: Monica | November 29, 2006 07:23 AM
I would just like to know if LE has released the vehicle back to JY. If not, that should be a pretty good indication that some evidence of value was found inside.
Posted by: Monica | November 29, 2006 07:27 AM
Just one more thing. If the investigation has led authorities to a total of 4 states for clues, I would think that pretty much rules out any punk teenager. Wouldn't you?
Posted by: Monica | November 29, 2006 07:37 AM
Monica, I think Michelle's DNA in Jason's motel or hotel room would be very hard to explain away.
I'm hoping he carried something back to his hotel. Her blood in the drains would be a slam dunk.
Posted by: Mgt | November 29, 2006 07:41 AM
Very good point, Mgt. Someone on another forum was saying that Dr. Michael Baden weighed in on the case and said the perp would probably have had a lot of blood splashed on them from the blunt force murder.
I'm not sure that JY would have gotten in his car and driven tons of miles with that kind of blood on him. If he's guilty, it's more likely that he cleaned himself up in the home first.
Posted by: Monica | November 29, 2006 07:49 AM
You are probably right about that, Monica. Although, I don't think he would have wanted to leave evidence of her blood in the drains of the home, either.
An 'intuder' would not have done that. So, showering would have been risky.
It is all just speculation at this point, of course. There could be any amount of reasons for her blood being in the drain of her own home.
Posted by: Mgt | November 29, 2006 08:01 AM
I think Scott Dyleski cleaned up (showered?) in Pamela Vitale's home.
You just never know. Jason could have just wiped himself down with towels and put those and his bloody clothing in a bag to take with him and dispose of later. The possibilities are endless.
Posted by: Monica | November 29, 2006 08:09 AM
Do you think he attacked her in her bed?
The fact that she was found on the floor could mean that she tried to get up and he struck her again.
Actually, I feel quite ill, thinking how brutal these murders are. Makes me shiver, wondering how they were so unaware of the evil.
Posted by: Mgt | November 29, 2006 08:17 AM
I think she was sleeping and she was initially struck while laying on the bed. Meredith told the 911 dispatcher that there was blood all over the bed and Michelle was found on the floor.
My thoughts are that she didn't actually die from the initial blows and tried to get to the phone for help. She made it out of the bed only to die on the floor from all the trauma inflicted upon her while in bed.
Posted by: Monica | November 29, 2006 08:21 AM
This sounds awful but if he did this I hope Cassidy saw him and she is able to tell someone.
I hope she is old enough to be an eye witness but young enough for the memory to fade.
I know. How can I think this way?
Posted by: Mgt | November 29, 2006 08:30 AM
Gawd! Does it never end?
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003452581_hitman29.html
Posted by: Wench | November 29, 2006 09:04 AM
It takes a brave woman to get married these days, by George!
Present company, excepted.
Posted by: Mgt | November 29, 2006 09:11 AM
Hey Wench! It was dry last night and dry this morning.
Talk about spoilt!
Posted by: Mgt | November 29, 2006 09:16 AM
I felt pretty brave, getting married! Even though I had been friends with my husband for 15 years before I married him.
Posted by: vero | November 29, 2006 09:55 AM
Don't think I am going to have to prove how brave I am, Vero. Not in this lifetime. LOL
Posted by: Mgt | November 29, 2006 10:17 AM
When the one you thought was going to love, cherish and protect turns on you, you begin to doubt your own judgment. I did that with SSS. In the beginning, he had been so strong and protective. Years later, his girlfriend asked me, "Do you really expect him to look after you?" The answer was, "Yes, I do." He had drawn me away from my support network and given me two children. You're darn right I expected him to look after me!
How could I have chosen so badly?
It actually wasn't until I started reading Loretta's writings about narcissists, and the papers she linked, that I realized it wasn't all my faulty judgment that had got me into such a mess.
Posted by: vero | November 29, 2006 10:31 AM
You ALWAYS learn something from this fine lady, Vero.
I was just saying that this morning, on another blog.
Posted by: Mgt | November 29, 2006 10:38 AM
At least you learned your lesson, Vero. I kept on choosing the same type.
That's why I've given up.
Posted by: Mgt | November 29, 2006 10:40 AM
Vero that seems to be a trait of narcissists.
They get you as far away from everyone who cares about you. When mine felt he was losing the fight against my family, he took our passports. Probably another control thing.
My dad phoned my 6'4" bother and asked him to go get them back. Apparently, there wasn't a murmur. He just handed them over. Bloody coward!
Posted by: Anonymous | November 29, 2006 11:01 AM
That was me.
Posted by: Mgt | November 29, 2006 11:02 AM
Yup. One Jude Allen Duzan stole my passport. We were engaged. He was horrible. I left. He trashed my stuff.
Posted by: vero | November 29, 2006 11:05 AM
I need to hit the streets, running.
Bus it home. Drive over to the West End before 6:30 PM.
Ciao, everybody!
Posted by: Mgt | November 29, 2006 11:36 AM
See you tomorrow!
Posted by: vero | November 29, 2006 11:49 AM
Here is the follow-up to the murder for hire story to kill the pregnant woman in Dallas. It's very detailed. Don't forget bugmenot dot com if needed to read the story. It's very interesting.
Posted by: Monica | November 29, 2006 02:57 PM
From the link above on the murder for hire: Sounds a lot like Scott Peterson in many ways.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
He flirted with the attractive women in his jam-packed classes and socialized after-hours with the regulars.
"He never talked about a wife or son or kids and led most of us to believe he was single," said Eric Cantu, who took Mr. Sterling's class for years and, with other longtime members, occasionally socialized with him.
"I don't think any of us know who he is," Mr. Cantu said. "He might have had this secret life, and it's shocking."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Two things about this story are bothering me. The Sterling's had a $400,000 home, and the "hit man" was only offered $2,500 to kill Mrs. Sterling? That doesn't sound right. Maybe the guy had a change of heart because he realized he was getting the shaft?
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad he didn't kill her. I'm just saying, something doesn't sound "right".
Posted by: Nadine | November 29, 2006 03:40 PM
This Sterling character (no pun intended. Okay, maybe a little) sounds like he thought he was starring in some sort of spy movie or something.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
While with police, Mr. Thompson called Mr. Sterling's cellphone. Using code words the men had worked out, Mr. Thompson bluffed about the fate of Ms. Sterlings car and her body.
"The chariot is in South Dallas,"Mr. Thompson told Mr. Sterling. "The trash," he said, was in West Dallas
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If it wasn't so horrible, it would be funny.
Posted by: Nadine | November 29, 2006 04:24 PM
Agreed, Nadine. How does a gym instructor afford a 400k home?
Posted by: Wench | November 29, 2006 05:00 PM
Sounds like he couldn't afford the $400,000 home and needed the insurance money to bail him out.
Posted by: Anonymous | November 29, 2006 05:52 PM
Sure sounds like a loving husband to me. NOT!
Posted by: CountryGal | November 29, 2006 07:43 PM
New wedding vows:
Do you promise to love, honor, obey and not hire a hitman to kill me instead of a divorce?
Posted by: CountryGal | November 29, 2006 07:45 PM
"....promise to value my life more than that of my insurance policy.."
Posted by: Barbara | November 29, 2006 07:55 PM
Bob actually has twice as much insurance on himself (through his company) as he does on me.
He worries about me being a crime hag. LOL
Posted by: Monica | November 29, 2006 08:19 PM
There would not be enough money in the world! I have this one house broken. Why would I want to start over again???
Posted by: Barbara | November 29, 2006 08:21 PM
I like CountryGal's new vows.
Here's another.
Do you promise to love, honor and divorce me in the event you grow tired of me?
I can't imagine killing someone for money. Self defense is the only way I'd ever intentionally kill someone.
Posted by: Nadine | November 29, 2006 09:49 PM
Looks like an ice storm tomorrow. Dallas will be a zoo.
Posted by: Captain Joe | November 29, 2006 10:25 PM
Austin will be a circus!
Posted by: Anonymous | November 29, 2006 10:28 PM
That was me.
Posted by: vero | November 29, 2006 11:57 PM
http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Edmonton/2006/11/28/2531575.html
The Michael and Liana White case is in court. Michael has taken the stand in his own defense.
Posted by: vero | November 30, 2006 01:35 AM
I'll have to read up on that one. Thanks for the link, Vero.
Posted by: Nadine | November 30, 2006 02:32 AM
Morning.
Thuv whaasht tha ootsayd windaes 'n thurs auw whaata aboot tha flayr.
Just a little riddle for you. I have to put up with this language/speech every day.
Posted by: Mgt | November 30, 2006 03:36 AM
They've washed the outside windows and there's water on the floor?
Good morning, er afternoon? Mgt.
Posted by: Anonymous | November 30, 2006 08:30 AM
oops! that was me up there, lol.
Posted by: Wench | November 30, 2006 08:38 AM
"You've washed the outside windows and there's water all over the floor."
We were on a train, halted by a derailment further down the line, and an old gent, liberally fortified with whisky asked me,
"Is them yer berrins, then?"
I had to ask him to repeat, till I got that "berrins" were "bairns." Then, I was OK.
Posted by: vero | November 30, 2006 08:48 AM
I do so loooove to hear the Scottish accent, it just makes me smile. Hmmmm, could it be that I have some ties there, lol?
Posted by: Wench | November 30, 2006 08:53 AM
Fabulous, you two. Vero, yours was slightly more exact.
You never hear anyone use the words kid/s or child/ren. It is always bairns or waens - maybe gawd know how to spell that one.
They don't pet or pat your dog - they clap your dog. It is hysterical watching my South African friends trying to fathom what people are saying to them.
Posted by: Mgt | November 30, 2006 09:03 AM
"Weans." As in "recently weaned." As in "rugrats," or "crumbsnatchers," as we say in the G S of T.
Posted by: vero | November 30, 2006 09:13 AM
LOL! Where are you guys from? I've never heard of some of these words.
Thanks for the explanation of 'weans'.. can you also do bairns??
:-?
Posted by: fourier | November 30, 2006 09:20 AM
That did cross my mind, Vero. I think you are right.
Another good one "gonnae no dae thaat?"
Okay, now I'll stop.
Posted by: Mgt | November 30, 2006 09:21 AM
That really made me laugh, Fourier. It is the Glaswegian (Glasgow, Scotland) accent. LOL
Posted by: Mgt | November 30, 2006 09:31 AM
Fourier
Bairn/s could derive from the Gaelic, meaning baby. I'm really not sure, though.
Posted by: Mgt | November 30, 2006 09:41 AM
My mom had a maxim: "Fools and bairns should never see half-done work."
She said that whenever I grumbled about something she was doing before it was finished.
Posted by: vero | November 30, 2006 09:56 AM
Good morning!
Posted by: Doe Eyes | November 30, 2006 10:50 AM
Mornin', Doe!
What's new?
Posted by: vero | November 30, 2006 10:54 AM
Hoping you all have a great day.
Ciao!
Posted by: Mgt | November 30, 2006 11:31 AM
Mornin' Vero!
Nothing new to report in this neck of the woods. We played yesterday so I'm trying to catch up today.
Nothing new in the MY case? LE is sure keeping a lid on it, aren't they?
Have a great evening, Mgt!
Posted by: Doe Eyes | November 30, 2006 12:17 PM
Thanks for the explanation of those phrases. I'd have never figured a couple of them out on my own.
Posted by: Nadine | November 30, 2006 01:41 PM
Wonder if JY has changed his hair color and grown any facial hair yet.
Posted by: Captain Joe | November 30, 2006 02:44 PM
Now that would be very telling, Captain Joe.
Interesting that we haven't heard anything lately.
Posted by: Nadine | November 30, 2006 02:50 PM
Only if he has bought his mom an old Mercedes!
Posted by: Vero | November 30, 2006 02:50 PM
Hi everyone!
I love your redecorating, Loretta. Whoah!
Posted by: Vix | November 30, 2006 04:51 PM
I wonder if JY tried to get MY to go with him to Brevard but she declined the scenic drive to protect her baby.
Posted by: Captain Joe | November 30, 2006 05:10 PM
Breaking news
Michelle's family finds tooth at murder scene, Sheriff at Brevard collecting finger prints.
http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=local&id=4811361
Posted by: Anonymous | November 30, 2006 05:16 PM
I'd be worried about what else might have been missed if investigators didn't find a tooth in the room.
They say it was Michelle's tooth, and not an "important piece of evidence". What if someone else's DNA is on that tooth? I hope they check that out.
Posted by: Nadine | November 30, 2006 05:29 PM
Anonymous beat me to the punch on that link.....I just got that in my inbox from the local news alerts.
Is it just me or does it seem incredibly inhumane that the family of a murder victim is responsible for the clean-up efforts? (The link said JY's family found the tooth). Just the thought of one of the family members having to steamclean Michelle's blood out of the carpets, off the walls, whatever.....just seems like a horrible, horrible task. You'd think that there would be a clean-up team that follows the investigators when they're done....someone NOT tied to the victim who can rip out carpet, wipe down walls, etc. Is this unique to this case or is there a clean-up crew usually?
Posted by: Enchanted Oaks Resident | November 30, 2006 05:31 PM
anony = CJ
makes you wonder about the thoroughness of the CSI. Lawyers will make something of this.
Posted by: Captain Joe | November 30, 2006 05:35 PM
EOR, I know there are companies that specialize in crime scene cleanup. I'm not familiar with how those services are arranged. I'm fairly sure it's probably up to the family to find out about it, though.
I would think as a courtesy, the Coroner's office or police department would at least leave a card with options avalible for the family in those circumstances.
When my Mother passed away, she had a stroke and fell. There was a tremendous amount of blood involved. Because of that, the CSI unit was called, in order to determine if it was a crime scene or not. I wasn't given any information on how to deal with cleaning anything.
It was a very emotional thing to have to do. I can only imagine how much harder it would have been if my loved one had been murdered.
Posted by: Nadine | November 30, 2006 05:40 PM
There's always the chance that the tooth belongs to the killer. If both Michelle and Jason had all their teeth it opens the door to the deranged kid theory again. Either way it looks like the Sheriff is gonna have to have a news conference to explain the slipup and perhaps identify who the tooth belongs to. I hope Greta or NG are on top of this.
Posted by: Captain Joe | November 30, 2006 05:49 PM
The Transylvania county sheriff says his office has been contacted to assist with fingerprinting relatives and friends of Jason Young, who sources say is back home in the Brevard area with his two year-old daughter.
This sounds to me like they're trying to associate all fingerprints in the home to known people and then isolate the unknowns. That would make it seem like there is still the possibility that the murderer was "somebody else".
Posted by: Barbara | November 30, 2006 07:31 PM
Thanks for the nice words, Vix. It's not Carnegie Hall, but it's nice to look at. (The blog, that is.)
I can't believe someone missed a tooth. If it belongs to Michelle, that's an ugly beating. If it belongs to the perp, she must have fought back.
It's hard to knock out a tooth of a healthy person.
We are going on such scant information.
Posted by: loretta | November 30, 2006 07:56 PM
This one has a little more info. The tooth was found by the SIL near the bed. It also sounds like reporters are trying to get the family to talk.
"Young's husband, Jason Young, has not commented about the case, and when WRAL went to his sister's home in Aberdeen on Thursday, family members there refused to comment."
http://www.wral.com/news/10435063/detail.html
Evening all!
Posted by: Doe Eyes | November 30, 2006 08:09 PM
"This particular item was very small, and not knowing where it was found, I can only assume that it was a location (that) would have been hidden."
An adult tooth isn't small when you are going over a crime scene with a fine tooth comb.
Posted by: Anonymous | November 30, 2006 08:15 PM
Oops! That was me.
Posted by: Doe Eyes | November 30, 2006 08:27 PM
Just a thought, but maybe the tooth (if it doesn't belong to MY) was planted there by JYs family to try and get JY off the hook? I just find it strange that the autopsy didn't reveal missing teeth which would result in having the CCBI search for it at the house. And how convenient JYs sister finds it so quickly after CCBI was there for 10 days.
Has the tooth been tested, does anyone know?
Posted by: james | November 30, 2006 08:41 PM
Good points james. I hadn't thought of that possibility. I just figured it was Michelle's.
Posted by: Barbara | November 30, 2006 08:44 PM
Hi, all! Long time since I've posted, but I visit almost daily. The new look is great!
Regarding the tooth, maybe I mis-read that article, but I thought it was MY's sil (her brothers's wife) who found the tooth. At least it read that way to me. Sounded to me like Jason's family has remained in Brevard.
Posted by: Kris | November 30, 2006 08:56 PM
It's hard to tell from news reports because they frequently get details wrong.
In one article it says that members of Michelle's family found it and further in the same article it says members of Jason's family found it.
Posted by: Barbara | November 30, 2006 09:03 PM
I should mention that I love the new look as well!
It was MYs SIL who found the tooth - JYs sister.
MY doesn't have a brother to my knowledge.
Posted by: james | November 30, 2006 09:16 PM
Oh, okay.
Since I saw early in the article that it was MY's family who found the tooth, I figured the sil must be from her side of the family.
My bad.
Posted by: Kris | November 30, 2006 09:19 PM
I hope it wasn't Meredith that had to clean up the crime scene; she has been through enough horror!
Posted by: CountryGal | November 30, 2006 09:21 PM
Cops, LE, et al don't clean up the crime scene to my knowledge in any crime story I have ever followed.
It's the responsibility of the homeowner/whoever lives there.
Remember how long Michael Peterson left that bloody staircase before finally having it cleaned up? He did a little spot cleaning at first, but then left it there for quite some time.
Posted by: loretta | November 30, 2006 09:24 PM
Yea, I'm surprised that anyone from either side of the family went into the house, let alone the master bedroom! That's why it's so weird to me that the SIL found a tooth and not some hired crime scene clean-up crew. The tooth must have been extremely hidden for CCBI to not find it, yet JYs sister can stomach looking under furniture in that horrific crime scene and locate it??? Strange!
Posted by: james | November 30, 2006 09:30 PM
Much more on the White trial:
Very interesting. He can't keep track of his own lies, either.
Posted by: loretta | November 30, 2006 09:35 PM
From the link Captain Joe posted about the tooth:
Although it has not yet been tested they believe the tooth belonged to Michelle Young, not her killer.
Posted by: Nadine | November 30, 2006 09:35 PM
THE TRIAL SO FAR (Summary from one of the articles:)
- White told police he saw his wife leave home for work at 6:15 a.m. on July 12, 2005, the day she was reported missing. But several witnesses saw her abandoned SUV about 5:45 a.m. Police said the driver's seat was pushed too far back for Liana to have driven it.
- A security video from a nearby pub shows a similar SUV heading toward the spot where Liana's vehicle was found. Minutes later, the video shows a bald man resembling White jogging by in the opposite direction.
- Police placed White under surveillance on July 14, and that night watched him drive to a field north of the city and pick up garbage bags containing evidence. White took them home and placed them outside for garbage pickup.
- Inside the bags, police found latex gloves with White's DNA inside the fingertips and Liana's blood on the outside.
- Police used luminol to find invisible traces of blood in couple's bedroom. An expert testified the blood patterns were consistent with a stabbing.
- White was part of a search team that found Liana's body in a ditch north of the city on July 17. She had been stabbed twice in the back and died from a neck wound.
Posted by: loretta | November 30, 2006 09:36 PM
Oh yeah, his goose is cooked.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- Inside the bags, police found latex gloves with White's DNA inside the fingertips and Liana's blood on the outside.
Posted by: Nadine | November 30, 2006 09:42 PM
This is the best overview of the White case of all the articles (and I read them all.)
Yeah, his goose is cooked. What a lying SOS.
Posted by: Anonymous | November 30, 2006 09:49 PM
White's attorney would have jurors believe that
White picked up two garbage bags figuring in the prosecution's evidence simply out of a sense of public service.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This loser sounds like another Mark Geragos.
Posted by: Nadine | November 30, 2006 09:58 PM
This "public service" was of course performed before Liana's body was even found.
Posted by: Nadine | November 30, 2006 09:59 PM
If you're cleaning up, you're cleaning up. especially if it's blood and such. If you don't move everything and get all of it, it will stink forever.
Posted by: vero | November 30, 2006 10:25 PM
He was all worried about litter and the environment and such.
Posted by: Lisa | November 30, 2006 10:32 PM
I wonder if he used recyclable garbage bags.
Posted by: Nadine | November 30, 2006 10:43 PM
I gotta think some shoe is gonna drop pretty soon. LE updating DA today, DA visiting crime scene recently, LE in Brevard fingerprinting everyone, LE visiting three other states (the sales territory?). Sounds to me they got only one POI and it ain't the 15 year old.
Posted by: Anonymous | November 30, 2006 11:16 PM
Lo
This is one cold night and it's headed your way. Bundle up.
Posted by: Captain Joe | December 1, 2006 12:15 AM
It's a tad bit chilly right here!
Posted by: vero | December 1, 2006 12:57 AM
I know it's been a long while; does anyone remember me per chance?
Glad to see the Misfits are still alive and kicking. I've been trying to catch up here, but working 4 jobs doesn't give me much time.
This Young case is quite interesting, and I appreciate all the info, although I can't make any judgement one way or another yet.
Good to see a lot of the old "faces" again. Curious about the whereabouts of KN, Rose, etc, and where in heavens' name is GrandmaBoo??!! Is she alright?
I'll keep reading, and will put my 2 cents worth in every now and then. Problem is, by the time I get on here, everyone else has gone to bed...except maybe Mgt from Scotland, heh heh. And Moi dot dot dot.
Bluerose (from Canada)
Posted by: bluerose | December 1, 2006 02:12 AM
Miss me? I've spent the entire evening at the ER with hubby. He tangled with the food slicer again and this time he lost part of his index finger. I could have had him arrested tonight for felony stupid (and, don't luminol my kitchen please!) but I think he learned his lesson this time. Last time (the first time he used it) was only a bandaid. Tonight it was stitches, a tetanus shot and antibiotics.
Posted by: CountryGal | December 1, 2006 02:39 AM
Good morning!
Geez, CG!. Bet you are sorry you bought stupid slicer/dicer. Yikes!
The tooth showing up is a bit strange. You'd think bringing *machines* to the scene they would have found a tooth. A bloody tooth would sure light up with luminol.
Posted by: Mgt | December 1, 2006 04:42 AM
Barbara, about the fingerprinting. I don't think LE want to sit in Court and say they didn't do a thorough job.
Murderers getting off on technicalities is a waste of everyone's time. Not to mention maddening.
Posted by: Mgt | December 1, 2006 04:47 AM
We have sunshine with a really cold wind, today.
Posted by: Mgt | December 1, 2006 06:00 AM
Finding Michelle's tooth near the bed is rather worrisome. No wonder her family are concerned about the thoroughness of CSI investigators.
Down-playing this will not look good for the investigation team. IMO
Not that the tooth is necessarily important. Makes you wonder. What else did they miss?
Posted by: Mgt | December 1, 2006 08:03 AM
CG, I'm beginning to think there is some bad karma surrounding the onion slicer. I hope hubby heals quickly.
I'm sure JY and his attorney will use the fact that they missed the tooth to their advantage if/when there is an arrest.
Good morning!
Posted by: Doe Eyes | December 1, 2006 08:15 AM
Hi, bluerose!
I remember your name.
The three you mention have been having very time-consuming real lives. Checking in once in a while is all they can manage.
Posted by: vero | December 1, 2006 08:41 AM
CG! What in the world was Hubby thinking?
Sharp things are very scary for me, since Chandra managed to remove part of her thumb on an electric slicer.
Maybe he'll figure it out, now?
Posted by: vero | December 1, 2006 08:50 AM
Geez! I hope so. After the first injury I wouldn't have gone near the thing without steel gloves. LOL
Posted by: Mgt | December 1, 2006 09:04 AM
CG's husband must be the stubborn type!
Posted by: vero | December 1, 2006 09:17 AM
Ya think?
Posted by: Mgt | December 1, 2006 09:22 AM
Or, maybe he shouldn't have rolled his eyes the first time CG told him to be careful. It's that karma thing.
Lesson #1 - Never roll your eyes or give your wife "the look".
Posted by: Anonymous | December 1, 2006 09:28 AM
I have a feeling that a jury will roll their eyes about the missed tooth in MY's murder investigation.
If that's all the defense attorney has to work with, the perp is in big trouble.
No investigation is perfect. I suspect an arrest will be made very soon.
I think investigators must have found more knocked out teeth in their search and that's why they are sure the missed tooth is MYs. The thought of how hard she was hit to have teeth knocked out makes me ill.
Good morning.
Posted by: Monica | December 1, 2006 09:35 AM
The thought of it is sickening, Monica.
I agree. If they get another Justin Flake-ner, he will get booted. Jurors have to have reasonable minds. At the very least, a bit of logic.
Posted by: Mgt | December 1, 2006 09:40 AM
Ahhh, yes, Mgt. Good ole Justin Flake-ner (heh,love it!) I thought that dweeb's two seconds of fame was never going to end. Blah, blah, blah. He was sooo annoying. GerEgos probably cried when that idiot was booted.
Posted by: Monica | December 1, 2006 09:53 AM
Geragos knew his client stank to high heaven. The best he could have hoped for was a hung jury.
He already had all the money he was likely to get out of the Petersons.
The next trial wouldn't have been his problem.
Posted by: Mgt | December 1, 2006 10:01 AM
Time flies when you are having fun.
Loretta, sorry I missed you. Have a good weekend.
Ciao everybody!
Posted by: Mgt | December 1, 2006 11:04 AM
Good heavens! Is it that time already?
I have to run, as well!
Later, y'all!
Posted by: vero | December 1, 2006 11:06 AM
Vero, hubby stubborn? Nawwwww, what gave you that idea?
Posted by: CountryGal | December 1, 2006 11:51 AM
Still laughing from anony's mention of "The Look". I think I might photograph Hubs' "Look". Knowing the softy inside as I do makes it much less chilling than it would otherwise be, hehehe. The transition from sweet-handsome to absolute evil is incredible. Fortunately, it is Memmy who is usually the recipient of said "Look".
Mornin' to ye, ladies, it's Friday. Isn't that a day-maker?
Posted by: Wench | December 1, 2006 12:08 PM
Beg pardon, ahem...ladies and gents.
Posted by: Wench | December 1, 2006 12:10 PM
Good morning! Technically, it's not noon here yet, so it's still morning. Yes, it's TGIF!
CountryGal, we both spent consecutive evenings in the ER with Husbands this week. Let's not start a trend, okay? From now on, yours is not allowed near anything sharp! Hubby's injury involved sawdust in the eye after using a chainsaw at work, so technically, he should be banned from sharp things too.
Wench, I used to be able to reduce my BIL to a shivering mass of jelly with "The Look". He swore it made him want to crawl through a crack in the floor.
The funny thing is, I never intended to have that effect. I'm really a softie at heart, too.
Posted by: Nadine | December 1, 2006 02:22 PM
I know Nadine. I thought about you as I drove last night. Sheesh!
Posted by: CountryGal | December 1, 2006 03:37 PM
I sat in the waiting room most of last night because he was in a tiny cubbie in ER--not room for both of us if the doctor came in.
So, I grabbed an awful cup of so-called-Starbucks coffee from the machine (YUK!) and sat by the door diagnosing everyone that came in. One little girl, about 13 was carried in by her father and he sat her next to me in the empty chair and filled out the paperwork. Broken ankle. I guessed tumbling and she said 'gymnastics'. How close is that?? LOL!
I'm not a doctor but I play one in the ER waiting room.
Posted by: CountryGal | December 1, 2006 03:41 PM
Oh, you're good! There was room in our cubbie, but just barely. I had to lead Hubs, cuz he couldn't see very well.
After a pretty long wait, I asked the nurse if they were going to give him those numbing eyedrops they promised while we waited for the opthomologist. The nurse, who had quite an accent of some kind, told me, "Oh, Lady, we don't speciarize here in ER. We do not have, per se, oppammalagees, gynocorrogees, you know? We speciarize in evvy-tiing!"
I was trying SO hard not to crack up when I told him I didn't think Hubby was going to need the "gynocorrogees"!
Posted by: Nadine | December 1, 2006 04:15 PM
Well, imagine the ER in Hooterville!
I raced around to collect ice and a baggie and (close your eyes if you are having din din--how do I put this?) the specimin--and the intake lady told me that probably wasn't necessary to bring.
WELL! So much for watching ER and GA!
In Hooterville, if you slice off something not that important, just leave it at home. Heh.
Posted by: CountryGal | December 1, 2006 04:22 PM
"The Specimen" You're cracking me up!
Well now, you know if you hadn't brought it, they'd have asked you for it! You really should write for GA.
Posted by: Nadine | December 1, 2006 04:34 PM
I dropped him off at the ER door and gave him his 'baggie' and he said when he went to the window, she said "Is that your tooth?" BWAAAAAAAAAA!
Posted by: CountryGal | December 1, 2006 04:41 PM
Hey, at least she didn't ask him if he needed to see the "gynocorrogees"!
Posted by: Nadine | December 1, 2006 04:47 PM
I'm no nurse but even I know a tooth when I see one.
Posted by: CountryGirl | December 1, 2006 04:47 PM
Which brings us back to how in the world the investigation team could have missed a tooth at a crime scene. That's just unreal.
Posted by: Nadine | December 1, 2006 04:49 PM
Perhaps they didn't do a grid search.
Posted by: CountryGal | December 1, 2006 05:01 PM
It sounds like they didn't go over things with a very fine toothed comb.
Posted by: Nadine | December 1, 2006 05:04 PM
CC is covering the Young case.
Posted by: Doe Eyes | December 1, 2006 05:07 PM
Maybe an arrest?
Posted by: Nadine | December 1, 2006 05:12 PM
Thanks Doe! Any new info?
Posted by: CountryGal | December 1, 2006 05:14 PM
Nothing new.
Wral reporter spoke to an investigator today confirming the use of a high tech piece of equipment that was brought in to see things not visable to the naked eye.
There still hasn't been a formal interview of JY.
They found that very odd.
An attorney (I didn't catch his name) felt like the tooth might be a red herring to take the focus off of JY.
Posted by: Doe Eyes | December 1, 2006 05:17 PM
The investigator still will not tell them what the piece of equipment was that they brought in. I wonder why?
Posted by: Doe Eyes | December 1, 2006 05:23 PM
That's strange. I wonder if it's something to measure the offcast blood that may have been on the walls.
Posted by: Nadine | December 1, 2006 05:25 PM
That's my bet Nadine--something to do with blood spatter. I caught the end of it about the tooth.
Posted by: CountryGal | December 1, 2006 06:47 PM
Surely, they have an alternate light source that can see luminol. Hmmmm.
Posted by: CountryGal | December 1, 2006 07:01 PM
Jason Young's Reunion profile:
http://www.reunion.com/dispatch?action=student&affiliateid=105&id=1753342&
Posted by: Captain Joe | December 1, 2006 08:16 PM
Joe, they want a registration.
Posted by: CountryGal | December 1, 2006 08:47 PM
Not a lot on it. Says he sells pharmaceuticals out of Raleigh.
Posted by: Captain Joe | December 1, 2006 09:09 PM
A birthdate for JY is 04-08-1974
Posted by: Captain Joe | December 1, 2006 10:36 PM
Did it give the year of his information?
Posted by: CountryGal | December 1, 2006 11:51 PM
1999. No other info on it.
Posted by: Captain Joe | December 2, 2006 10:35 AM
Oh drats. He shares my birthday with me. Only ten years later, though.
First Monica Lewinsky smudged my good name and now this guy goes and ruins my birthday. What next?
Thanks, Joe.
Posted by: Monica | December 2, 2006 10:50 AM
Happened upon this board quite by mistake. I have had a violent crime occur within my family in the past and I do know some things about the logistics of clean up afterwards so will comment on those and a few other things.
I have to say first, LE in Wake Co. looks pretty incompetent with their responses on the matter of the tooth.
The Wake Co. sheriff. When asked about the tooth being missed he says: "well you have to remember this was a very large house." Thus implying they can only do a thorough investigation on houses up to a certain square footage? I guess he's saying if you live in a small house, you're safe, but boy if you pass that 2000 sq f threshold, watch out. Its too big for competent evidence gathering.
Then CCBI Dir. Sam Pennica says:
"You have to remember, this isn't the first time something like this has happened. We're human like everyone else."
Hmmm.... not the first time its happened? What other evidence have they missed or botched? Kind of makes you wonder about any other case they've worked on.
I have to say the following. Some of you are are saying the tooth was planted. Think about that. Do you really think someone is going to plant a tooth at a crime scene and then turn it over to LE if its bogus? They know, no doubt, that the tooth will be DNA'd. LE seems pretty sure its Michelle's tooth and has never denied that possibility or even suggested the tooth was planted. I suspect they know fully they missed it or hence they'd be saying it was a plant. I suspect someone has checked the medical examiners report and now realizes a tooth was missed. You seem to imply that the family was just carrying a spare tooth of hers around just in case the situation ever arose. Feel free to speculate, but it would make sense to keep speculation in the realm of the intelligible. Speculation runs wild after situations like these. It is hurtful to the families and most often all the speculation is about 180 degrees away from the truth. Someone takes a tiny grain of information and then makes a nice story to go with it. The press and the general public are very guilty of that. I have experienced what that is like first hand.
Perhaps instead of immediately damning the family, we should have empathy for them. The long and short of it is that LE shouldn't have missed a tooth. By their own admission they had CCBI there 3X, and 20 detectives working the case for 14 days. It reeks of incompetence on their part and they have said that it shouldn't have been missed. They have not said, "the family planted it". So, why do you immediately assume the worst?
I can tell you LE cleans up nothing when they leave a crime scene. It is up to the family to do all clean up arrangements. No one makes the house all nice and neat for them. Yes, there are companies that specialize in crime scene clean up. For all we know, one is being used by this family. However, they are quite expensive (thousands of dollars per room, depending on the extent of the clean up). Typically you have insurance companies involved, etc... So, I sincerely doubt the family was cleaning the house. They would not be capable of that magnitude of clean up. It is most likely that someone from the family had to go to the house with ins. agents, clean up contractors etc.. to have the job bid,etc.. Also, someone from the family would need to move personal items, etc.. so clean up could occur.
Most things that I've seen speculated about really have a logical explanation. The thing is, unless you've lived the nightmare, you don't realize what its like and what you have to do and deal with.
Posted by: just passing through | December 2, 2006 10:51 AM
Welcome, JPT. I don't think anyone here was suggesting that a tooth was planted. This is an idiot-free blog.
If Joe threw that out there, it's merely his usual devil's advocate stuff.
Thanks for your very interesting post.
Posted by: loretta | December 2, 2006 10:56 AM
Interesting, JPT. You're right in that we are mainly armchair speculationists. We were just seriously looking for another explanation besides that LE suffered from total incompetence. We never thought that Michelle's family planted the tooth.
I've managed apartment buildings (back in the day) and had to clean up after a death by natural causes; one that wasn't discovered for quite a few days. The cleanup was pushing the limits for us, so I know what you mean. Blood would have been way over the top.
Thanks for checking in.
Posted by: vero | December 2, 2006 11:00 AM
Nope, I never said nor believed the tooth was planted. My thoughts were that CCBI probably vacuumed the entire area with one of those forensic vacuums. It they are anything like a regular vacuum, they might spit back out something as dense as a tooth or pebble. Mine does. Anyhoo, if the Youngs had a shag type carpeting in their bedroom, the tooth could have been down in the nap of the carpet.
I don't think the investigation was shoddy because they missed a tooth. I'm sure the level of professionalism of CCBI will be evident at trial. We shall see (hopefully).
Posted by: Monica | December 2, 2006 11:12 AM
I watched Catherine Crier, yesterday, and a reporter said that CCBI took out chunks of the carpeting and some of the drywall in the bedroom. Probably for blood splatter analysis. I thought they usually just photographed the blood splatter for such analysis. If they actually removed drywall from the home, I would think that's a pretty serious investigation of the scene.
I feel sorry for the jurors who will have to review this crime scene evidence and photos. Gruesome and not for weak stomachs.
Posted by: Monica | December 2, 2006 11:19 AM
Could this be Jason's sister, right name, right area of the state:
http://runesofao.com/aobp/shardsyn.htm
Posted by: Anonymous | December 2, 2006 11:21 AM
Jason's older sister, Kimberly?
Posted by: Captain Joe | December 2, 2006 11:22 AM
It makes sense to remove a piece of drywall if it has an impression of a hammer or club impact in it.
Posted by: Captain Joe | December 2, 2006 11:25 AM
Interesting thought, Joe. I was thinking possibly a bloody finger print on the drywall caused them to remove it.
Posted by: Monica | December 2, 2006 11:32 AM
FWIW, the reporter on Crier said that the house was covered in finger print dust as evidenced through the windows surrounding the front door. Plus, we know that investigators were in Brevard collecting all kinds of prints from JYs family just recently.
Maybe there was a *partial* bloody palm print on the drywall.
Posted by: Monica | December 2, 2006 11:42 AM
I believe it was reported an attorney on CC said the toothe might be planted.
Posted by: CountryGal | December 2, 2006 12:31 PM
Could this be Jason's sister, right name, right area of the state:
http://runesofao.com/aobp/shardsyn.htm
Posted by: Anonymous | December 2, 2006 11:21 AM
Jason's older sister, Kimberly?
Posted by: Captain Joe | December 2, 2006 11:22 AM
=========================
Sorry...JY's sister is married and lives in Aberdeen NC (near Pinehust)
Posted by: Anonymous | December 2, 2006 07:41 PM
And she raises horses, right?
Posted by: Captain Joe | December 2, 2006 08:32 PM
Someone is filming a story/film about the Taylor Behl murder. Film crews and film company trucks have been seen around the 407 Hancock address and other Ben Fawley places this week.
Posted by: Captain Joe | December 2, 2006 08:43 PM
Sorry. This weekend is just all basketball/football. I haven't kept up with the case.
If you are not a college football fan, you can't possibly appreciate this day and the confusion that is now the BCS.
Posted by: Barbara | December 2, 2006 11:34 PM
Brendan can.
Posted by: vero | December 3, 2006 12:15 AM
Maybe the "quiet" that we hear in the Raleigh press and the local people not talking has to do with another, unspoken, aspect of this case. Perhaps this fear that we sense has to do with the "recent unpleasentness", that this is just one more sour aftertaste of the Civil War. Maybe she's just another dead damn yankee who was not wanted here anyway. Don't deny that these feelings still exist here in parts of the South. And New Yawkers, especially, sometimes grind exceedingly fine on some people, even on other northerners.
Posted by: Captain Joe | December 3, 2006 11:49 AM
Joe, I hope you're just saying that to get a response.
It's not as if Raleigh is a town of 200. Like most cities these days, it has people who have come from all over.
Here in Texas, as you know, we are even friendly with Californians. How cool is that?
Posted by: vero | December 3, 2006 12:37 PM
No, I'm sorry. I don't buy that for one minute. It doesn't matter where a murdered pregnant woman was from originally. The community would be just as upset and want the murderer found and justice served.
Posted by: Barbara | December 3, 2006 12:38 PM
As one who came from New England to Texas any marrying a Southern girl, I was aware of those feelings among my in-laws that I was the Yankee in the family and was not fully accepted by some of the in-laws. Also, my own parents and siblings considered me as a sellout and would not communicate with my in-laws. My sister moved to Raleigh and teaches medicine at Duke, and she and her husband have noticed the feelings of some locals against northerners. Some of the feelings are subtle and not overt, while others are blatant, made by those who assume that they are speaking to all southerners in their audience. Of course, it varies from individual to individual and is unfair to paint a whole culture. I'm just saying it exists in some people who are still fighting the Civil War in their minds.
Posted by: Captain Joe | December 3, 2006 01:52 PM
Off topic, but very important. Would everyone please send some positive thoughts out into the universe for this family to be found alive? They've been missing for 8 days.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SAN FRANCISCO
5 agencies combine efforts in search for missing family
Cnet editor, wife and 2 kids vanished during Oregon trip
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/12/02/BAGE2MO2TQ1.DTL
Posted by: Nadine | December 3, 2006 01:54 PM
I'm not saying that the murder itself had anything to do with the Civil War. Only the reaction of the people of Raleigh and the local press to the murder has something to do with the leftovers of the Civil War. Sadly, the murder has to do with a failure of man common to both the North and the South.
Posted by: Captain Joe | December 3, 2006 01:57 PM
I witnessed that northern contempt when I lived in North Carolina. There were two kinds of Yankees: d*mn Yankees and G*d d*mn Yankees. The D*mn Yankees visited and the GD Yankees stayed.
That being the case, I don't think it has anything to do with the coverage of Michelle's murder because, as we all know, murdering a pretty white pregnant mom is always a BIG SELL no matter what the geography.
The problem we have here is the Raleigh LE are being especially close-lipped and niggardly with their information.
Why? Probably they have an edict from on high. I still think the silence bodes poorly for Mr. Young.
Posted by: loretta | December 3, 2006 02:15 PM
I know what you mean about the residual prejudice. Just saying that the issue is bigger than that, and the prejudice is mostly confined to extremely conservative individuals.
Posted by: vero | December 3, 2006 02:20 PM
Just across town the DA in Durham is playing footsy politics with the racial Duke rape case. Don't tell me that the Civil War is not alive and well in the local politics and press of North Carolina. I'm just saying that there is an aspect of the case that has not been explored by the press nor discussed by the media probably because everyone is up tight right now.
Posted by: Captain Joe | December 3, 2006 02:38 PM
I hope the family is found. It sounds as if they may have holed up somewhere due to bad weather, but eight days is a very long time.
Posted by: vero | December 3, 2006 02:40 PM
Not saying that out-dated prejudices aren't alive and well. Just that I disagree that anything like that is involved with the coverage of this case.
Posted by: vero | December 3, 2006 02:42 PM
Vero,
The reason that there is a certain amount of prejudice involved is that it has been stated that the Fisher and Young families are not talking to each other. I'm thinking that the disconnect between the two families may have its origins in the hatred left over from the Civil War. I know for certain that a lot of the Mountain dwellers of the South retain those ancient grudges. I witnessed it in my military service. I also saw a lot of bigotry against southerners by people from NY.
Posted by: Anonymous | December 3, 2006 02:58 PM
Yup. I know it exists. Heck, it has only been a few years since Vicksburg had its first celebration of the 4th of July since the Civil War. Of course, that's the date the city surrendered.
However, as to it being a reason why the news is not forthcoming; I don't think so.
Posted by: vero | December 3, 2006 03:07 PM
And it don't make no nevermind if'n y'all are mountain-dwellers or not. Some a them flatlanders is still a mite bit crosswise with them damyankees!
Posted by: vero | December 3, 2006 03:09 PM
It was one month ago today that Michelle Young and her baby were murdered.
I hope there is an arrest soon.
Posted by: Doe Eyes | December 3, 2006 07:10 PM
Me, too, Doe!
Posted by: vero | December 3, 2006 09:08 PM
I moved to NC from the Midwest a decade ago, and found the locals to do nothing more than welcome me with open arms. In fact, it's rather difficult to find an NC native anymore, as this state is inundated with "Yankees" - a suburb of Raleigh, called Cary, has been made into an acronym...they call it the "Centralized Area for Relocated Yankees". So this theory of North vs. South in the MY case dosen't really make any sense.
Don't forget that there is a young child invovled, so it wouldn't be in the best interest for either family to start running their mouths off to the press.
Please let there be an arrest soon.
Posted by: james | December 3, 2006 11:26 PM
Amen to that, James! I don't think there's anything to it, either. Cap'n Joe will say stuff just to get a discussion going.
Posted by: vero | December 4, 2006 12:04 AM
Good morning!
Unfortunately, whether there is a problem with Yankees or not, LE have played into the hands of a Defence Team. Not good for the Fisher family.
Removing their grandchild is a good enough reason for the Fishers not to talk to the Youngs. That alone, indicates Jason Young's guilt. It is heartless as well as spiteful behaviour. IMO
Posted by: Mgt | December 4, 2006 04:12 AM
Good morning.
If CCBI removed chunks of carpet samples from the bedroom and MYs blood was allowed to stay on the carpeting for 2 weeks before the crime scene was released, I would think the carpet in that room would have been unsalvageable/uncleanable.
I'm still not all that worried about the missed tooth. Yes, it is a bonus for the defense team, but I don't think it will be nearly the reasonable doubt issue that some might like it to be.
I wonder if there are bloody shoe impressions (besides Cassidy's) on the carpeting. I'm more curious about the reason for the removal of drywall and carpeting than anything.
Posted by: Monica | December 4, 2006 08:14 AM
I do understand what C' Joe is talking about. I moved from TX to MI back in 1983. I still personally find that some of my kin folk and TX natives are prejudicial towards Northerns.
I don't think it has anything to do with the silence and lack of news coverage in this case.
I just think that LE are sure who the perp is and don't need any assistance from the media. That leaks in this case would hurt them and not help them. They might just be wising up to the media circus and the effects it has on public trials.
Posted by: Monica | December 4, 2006 08:32 AM
I think it may be a trend for the future.
Posted by: vero | December 4, 2006 08:39 AM
As much as I hate to say it because of my own morbid curiousity, Vero, I hope so for the sake of victims everywhere. I think that Canada has a much healthier way of dealing with trials by banning media coverage. I remember the Homolka case. People in Windsor would drive across the border into Detroit to pick up the local Free Press for information. It was nuts.
If media was banned from reporting before and during trials, it sure would make the True Crime sectionm of the bookstore boom. LOL
Posted by: Monica | December 4, 2006 08:52 AM
Oops! Someone else due to resign. Is there anyone left?
Of course, nothing could be Dubya's fault.
Posted by: Mgt | December 4, 2006 09:51 AM
I think the removed carpeting had to do with the possible shoe print of the killer. I don't think all the bloody foot prints were Cassie's. Of course, you probably won't get that info from the police, only from reports of the family or members or press.
Posted by: Captain Joe | December 4, 2006 11:12 AM
Good day to you, Cpt Joe. Do you have any hunches about how long it will take for LE to make a move on the suspect. If they have one.
Posted by: Mgt | December 4, 2006 11:25 AM
Wishing you all a very good day and night.
Ciao!
Posted by: Mgt | December 4, 2006 11:37 AM
What is so damning of Jason was to wait one day at his parents place after hearing about his wife's death before returning to Raleigh to retrieve his child. I guess he needed time to compose himself and to try to get his alibi straight or to clean out his car real thoroughly. I wonder how much bleach he used. This guy is history.
Posted by: Anonymous | December 4, 2006 12:09 PM
I would have had more faith in him if he had rushed right home.
Posted by: vero | December 4, 2006 05:13 PM
Sheriff says backlog in crime lab may delay investigation. Jason not cooperating. Three other murders not solved yet.
http://www.nbc17.com/midatlantic/ncn/search.apx.-content-articles-NCN-2006-12-04-0005.html
Posted by: Captain Joe | December 4, 2006 06:02 PM
I have to agree- if I was away and heard something had happened to my husband, I would HAVE to go home immediately. I can't even imagine waiting, and I don't even have a child. That would make it even more urgent!
Posted by: Abby | December 4, 2006 06:18 PM
I also can't imagine not cooperating. I would give them my right arm if I thought it would help. I don't understand that mentality. (Unless he's guilty of course.)
Posted by: Barbara | December 4, 2006 06:31 PM
Harrison said he still feels that it was not a random crime.
Harrison says Young's husband has been less than cooperative in the case, a case that doesn't appear to have any quick resolution.
This pretty much tells me all I need to know. Could be why all his *friends* quit running around the boards defending him, lest they leave with egg on their faces.
I was thinking an arrest would be imminent. Doesn't look that way from this article.
THanks for the link, C'Joe.
Posted by: Monica | December 4, 2006 06:47 PM
No arrests in 4 homicides? That's pretty surprising. I guess no one can accuse them of a rush to judgment.
I think if you read between the lines, the sheriff thinks the perp is the husband.
Posted by: loretta | December 4, 2006 07:25 PM
Thanks for the link, Captain Joe.
It's very disturbing that JY isn't cooperating. Why wouldn't you clear your name as a suspect? That says a lot right there.
The fact that he didn't return home immediately is also very telling.
Posted by: Doe Eyes | December 4, 2006 07:26 PM
They have quite a few "no arrest" homicides in my city. None of them are young, married, pregnant women so I'm not sure how much I would read into that statement.
Posted by: Barbara | December 4, 2006 07:27 PM
Really. Why in the world would he not rush home? I can't think of a single legitimate reason. If there is one, I'd sure like to hear it.
Posted by: vero | December 4, 2006 07:29 PM
I wonder what he's going to do for the holidays. Is he going to see his in-laws? Is he going to let Cassidy visit her maternal grandparents?
If we find out he never took Cassidy to see her grandparents or her aunt, that will also be a big red flag.
Posted by: loretta | December 4, 2006 07:29 PM
I think we're going for a record homicides this year. (Not to make any moms nervous or anything.)
The majority of homicides are "friends killing friends" kind of things. So it's hard to say. I would be curious what the other unsolved homicides involved.
Posted by: Barbara | December 4, 2006 07:32 PM
Michelle's mother gave the press conference right after the funeral. You'd think she would still be pleading for anyone who has any information with regard to her daughters murder to come forward. Unless, of course, she knows who it is.
I haven't seen anything from Michelle's father either. That seems odd. He's a sales manager at a car dealership in town.
Posted by: Doe Eyes | December 4, 2006 07:36 PM
I wish Lesa were still in town. She would know the skinny. Hopefully she'll have some other information when she gets back.
Posted by: loretta | December 4, 2006 07:39 PM
I'm not sure there is any more information to get. If people close to the family aren't giving anything out, I'm not sure anyone can get anything out of the locals. I think Cap't Joe got the most out of the local news folks. (And thanks again for that Joe!)
Posted by: Barbara | December 4, 2006 07:49 PM
I agree with you, Barbara. I don't think we're going to get much more information until there's an arrest.
Thanks, Captain Joe for that link up there.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Young's husband has been less than cooperative
That says it all. If he's innocent, why wouldn't he be glad to cooperate in any way possible?
Posted by: Nadine | December 4, 2006 08:07 PM
Husband and I were speculating tonight on what we would do in like circumstances. While it's tough to know what you would do, it's pretty sure what you would NOT do. Putting up a brick wall in the investigation was a unanimous "NO" for both of us. We would certainly not thwart the investigation.
Posted by: Barbara | December 4, 2006 08:11 PM
I'm so glad three members of the Kim family have been found. Now let's will them to find Mr. Kim. He went for help two days ago.
I can't imagine how much courage it had to take for him to leave his family to get help.
Posted by: Nadine | December 4, 2006 08:15 PM
Exactly, Barbara.
I'd want them to clear me ASAP so they could find the real killer.
Posted by: Anonymous | December 4, 2006 08:16 PM
If the mother and two young children survived, I'm hopeful that he found the means to do the same. Continued positive thougts.
Posted by: Barbara | December 4, 2006 08:17 PM
I'd want them to clear me ASAP so they could find the real killer.
Not only that, but the last thing that would be on my mind is my own hide (unless I was guilty). I wouldn't care about my rights or public perception or anything. I would give my all to find the perps.
Posted by: Barbara | December 4, 2006 08:19 PM
I hopeful that they will find Mr. Kim soon.
They must have been stuck way off the beaten path.
Posted by: Doe Eyes | December 4, 2006 08:20 PM
Josephine County Undersheriff Brian Anderson said they family turned off a side road and got stuck in the snow. The family had been driving along rural roads that are often used as shortcuts to Gold Beach on the south Oregon coast. The roads are typically used by whitewater rafters in the summer, but often are treacherous and impassible during the winter.
Nursing supervisor Cynthia Russell said the mother nursed both the children while they were lost because there was no food or water in their car. The baby will be admitted and the other two planned to stay overnight in the same room, Russell said.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/12/04/missing.family.ap/index.html
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Posted by: Nadine | December 4, 2006 09:50 PM
Wow. Well, there's an endorsement for breast feeding if I ever saw one!!
Posted by: loretta | December 4, 2006 10:06 PM
That's for sure. Mom must be exhausted.
Posted by: Nadine | December 4, 2006 10:18 PM
Good morning.
Off to see if I can catch Nadine.
BBL
Posted by: Mgt | December 5, 2006 03:22 AM
I hope they find Mr Kim. The weather is obviously atrocious.
Posted by: Mgt | December 5, 2006 10:51 AM
I wonder if JY has considered submitting to a polygraph exam. A LDT would be a good way to show cooperation with LE.
Posted by: Captain Joe | December 5, 2006 11:02 AM
Cpt Joe, IMO Jason doesn't care if LE knows he is guilty. As long as they don't manage to prove it, he is home free.
Another OJ.
Posted by: Mgt | December 5, 2006 11:16 AM
Good morning!
Glad to hear that the mom and children have been found! Now praying for the father and those searching for him. Of course, it was here that I first heard that the three have been found. Thanks! I rarely have time to check news, so I come here first.
Posted by: Kris | December 5, 2006 12:00 PM
An update on the search for Mr. Kim.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/12/05/missing.family.ap/index.html
Posted by: Doe Eyes | December 5, 2006 03:06 PM
Sorry I missed you again, Mgt. I'm just going to have to become more of a night owl.
Kris, I come here for a lot of the news updates too. Many of the things we follow aren't always in mainstream media. I've been addicted to OoaM ever since the week Laci Peterson went "missing".
It's a great place for info and good conversation.
Posted by: Nadine | December 5, 2006 03:09 PM
"Searchers scouring a rugged canyon Tuesday found a pair of pants matching the description of those worn by a missing man who struck out for help after his family's car got stuck in the snow."
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/12/05/missing.family.ap/index.html
Here's the link to the local news.
Posted by: Doe Eyes | December 5, 2006 07:42 PM
I heard that on the news Doe. I don't think that's good news for a happy resolution.
Posted by: Barbara | December 5, 2006 07:45 PM
Nope.
I can't for the life of me figure out why he would do that, if they are his pants. There are many ways to mark a trail. Shedding clothing in that type of weather wouldn't be one of them.
Posted by: Doe Eyes | December 5, 2006 07:51 PM
The only thing that I could think of is that they were soaked and it seemed warmer to not have them on.
Posted by: Barbara | December 5, 2006 08:03 PM
I'm really hoping those were NOT Mr. Kim's pants.
I'm really scared for him.
Posted by: Nadine | December 5, 2006 08:20 PM
Wouldn't you take them with you and let them dry out by the fire? He took 2 lighters with him and it is reported that they have some survival skills.
This was also reported:
(heh, I know. Reported doesn't mean it's fact.)
"The family said James Kim left the car around 7:45 a.m. Saturday and walked back the way they had come, saying he would return by 1 p.m. if he found no help."
Posted by: Doe Eyes | December 5, 2006 08:24 PM
I am so happy to see this site back to how it use to be.
It is very good.
Posted by: Good Good | December 5, 2006 08:25 PM
I can't imagine him removing his pants for any reason for any length of time.
Maybe they aren't Mr. Kim's.
Posted by: loretta | December 5, 2006 08:26 PM
I don't mean the murders are good. It is just good to see healthy communication flowing.
Posted by: Good Good | December 5, 2006 08:30 PM
He may not have had his usual reasoning skills. I would imagine he was suffering from lack of food. It may have altered his reality to the point of him making some poor choices.
Posted by: Barbara | December 5, 2006 08:33 PM
GG, I agree. It's nice to see it getting back to normal around here.
Barbara, that's what I meant by my last post. I hope the pants don't belong to Mr. Kim. If they do, he may be suffering delirium, and can't make good decisions.
I won't stop believing he's out there alive, I just hope he's found tonight.
Posted by: Nadine | December 5, 2006 08:43 PM
I still have hope. They found the mother and two small children so hopefully they'll find the husband/father.
Posted by: Barbara | December 5, 2006 08:49 PM
True.
His wife seemed fairly lucid though. She was waving at the crowd.
Posted by: Doe Eyes | December 5, 2006 09:05 PM
I'm guessing that he gave most any nourishment they had to his wife and children. And she stayed in the shelter of the car. He was out in the elements. I'm wondering if something happened to him since he didn't turn around and come back to the car. I'm wondering if it's possible that he fell into a creek or something.
The fact that they found pants but didn't find a body in the vicinity is a good sign, I think.
Posted by: Barbara | December 5, 2006 09:31 PM
Local news is speculating that he was marking a trail for himself or rescuers by leaving the pants. They may have found his backpack as well.
Posted by: Astrologer | December 5, 2006 09:36 PM
Well I hope they find him next, and soon. He didn't look like he had much body fat, and he's been out there a long time. He must have been convinced they were never going to be found when he went out on his own.
What a horrible torment he must have gone through, and still is, trying to figure out how to save his family.
Posted by: Nadine | December 5, 2006 09:46 PM
We have a new entry.
Seeya there!
Posted by: loretta | December 5, 2006 09:54 PM